ST vs SW vs SG vs BSG vs.. (AKA versus thread)

In this thread, we can POLITELY discuss and argue about differences between various Sci-fi giants, and keep it all safely locked in one thread. If you make a claim, you'd better explain why you feel that way. Don't state an opinion as a fact, it makes you look stupid. It's fiction, no need to get the peas all the way into your nose. When you start a discussion, do it like this:

Quote :

[ST vs SW] IMHO, SW has the technological edge over ST since they have had space travel for thousands of years against ST's millennia or two, hence why SW ships have more efficient FTL systems, weaponry and shields.

As soon as I detect that the debate is getting too hot, I will post appropriate images to cool it down.. like these:







So, let the debate begin. remember, opinions are not facts.

weapons power is not the true key to finding how strong something is, but the range of the weapons, is star wars, we didn't see the ships firing over 5,000 km, but ships such as the galaxy class starship have a 400,000 km




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scale= very very high

and has such firing range been seen on the screen?

The Long and Short of Starship Weapons Ranges
I. Introduction

One thing that is all over the map in science fiction is the issue of combat ranges. Different universes present combat at ranges ranging from the astronomical to that of a spitball.

This is also true within universes . . . for instance, Star Trek's original series presented decently-astronomical ranges, but when it was decided that Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan ought to feature ships firing from one another within visual range (a somewhat obvious "homage" to the Star Wars film battles, considered more exciting), the idea of the Mutara Nebula was created in order to explain the short ranges involved (†). A mix of short- and long-range combat was thus featured in later Trek series, as well, depending on "dramatic intent" (i.e. the whimsy on any given day of writers, directors, VFX guys, et cetera).

That said, it's still possible to derive useful information.
A. Basics

In any discussion of weapon range, it's important to distinguish between maximum range and maximum effective range. An old flintlock might be able to throw its projectile a maximum range of a few hundred meters (give or take ... I'm just making that up), but you probably couldn't expect to hit anything at that range. Thus the effective range is much less.

Some also get confused because of the issue of optimal range, which is not only a more context-specific issue, but generally requires that we know more about the specifics of systems and situation than we usually can.

For the purpose of our intergalactic squabble, the value we're most interested in is effective range. A simple unguided kinetic projectile, for instance, launched in space will continue on its course basically forever. Thus its maximum range is basically infinite. But for the purpose of ship-to-ship combat, the kinetic weapon's effective range will be determined by how fast it goes and how quickly the enemy ship can try to get out of the way before getting hit by it.
B. Specifics

Star Wars Weapons Ranges

Star Wars has been pretty consistent in its showing of vessel weapons ranges. As elucidated in the link above, combat strictly involving fighters or similar small-scale vessels is limited to a handful of kilometers at most. Actual observed ranges are far less than a kilometer. Combat between fighters and capital ships is limited to about 100 kilometers from the big ship, and a handful of kilometers at most from the fighter.

Between capital ships, a theoretical maximum effective range of 5500 kilometers is calculable, though in canonic practice long-range combat is measured in the hundreds of kilometers at most, and usual combat range occurs within tens of kilometers if not less. We may thus grant perhaps 1000 kilometers for longest-range combat, with 100 to 200 kilometers as a normal effective range. Optimal range seems to fall more in line with the 20km-or-less battles we usually see.

Star Trek Weapons Ranges

Star Trek weapons are fired frequently at ranges varying from twenty paces to two hundred thousand kilometers. Against small vessels like runabouts, capital ships may be limited in range to 5000 kilometers or so, though even an evading starship from a century ago can successfully hit a one meter object from about 90,000 kilometers.

Capital ship combat has been seen to occur at ranges of 200,000 kilometers, though more common ranges are in the tens of thousands of kilometers. Combat also frequently occurs at much shorter ranges. Pondering of this and examples of ranges appear in the link above.
II. Conclusion

While I frequently try to give Star Wars as much credit as possible, the simple fact in this case is that Star Wars simply gets stomped on the issue of range. The difference is devastating. In the below visual aid, for instance, I couldn't even fit the icon for the Imperial ship in its weapons range area, and that was after I made it near the theoretical maximum . . . vastly greater than what we've observed Star Wars vessels capable of, unlike the 200,000 kilometer observed Star Trek radius.




Combined with other issues, such as Star Wars capital ships having no less than ten times poorer acceleration ability than their Federation counterparts coupled with significantly less maneuverability, it's clear that Star Trek vessels enjoy significant advantages in sublight combat.

have to use multiple post

- "The Wounded"[TNG4] (2367)

Captain Benjamin Maxwell of the USS Phoenix embarks on a personal campaign against the Cardassians, who he believes to be re-arming for war. The issue of his prescience is outside the scope of this document . . . one of his battles, however, is not. As Maxwell pursues a Cardassian supply ship, the Enterprise, too distant to render aid, is forced to give the Cardassians the prefix codes of the Phoenix. This allows a nearby Cardassian warship to attack the now-shieldless Federation starship.

We're treated to a tactical display of the event with Data as the announcer. The weapons ranges of the ships are overlaid onto the screen. It is not clear what circles represent what weapons, or if that's even the criteria for the various circles about the ships. Heading and firing arc information is not displayed. The battle appears below, with times as per the TNG DVD of the episode.
Time: 19:12
Data reports: "The Warship is 300,000 kilometers from the Phoenix." At the time of this screencap, Data is speaking the word "Phoenix", and the warship is and has been closing at a moderate pace.
Time: 19:13
Data reports that the Cardassian vessel has opened fire.
Given the above, I would estimate an absolute minimum range at this point of perhaps 250,000 kilometers. That is absurdly small given the tiny change in distance between the blips, but gives uber-room for error.
Time: 19:15
Data reports that "the Phoenix has taken a direct hit."
For range purposes (i.e. assuming infinitely fast weapons that were just fired), this suggests a successful attack at an absolute minimum range of about 200,000 kilometers. For weapon speed purposes (i.e. assuming that this is the shot they opened with), this argues for a Cardassian weapons speed on the order of 100,000km/sec.
(At this point we cut away, from 19:19 to 19:32. During this period, Data says: "The Phoenix is beginning evasive maneuvers. It has positioned itself outside the weapons range of the opposing ship. The Phoenix has powered up both phasers and photon torpedoes. The Phoenix is firing photon torpedoes." Note that the Phoenix had to have re-entered the Cardassian weapons range in order to fire.)
Time: 19:36
The Phoenix fired torpedoes about four seconds ago.
Time: 19:37
The torpedoes have hit, destroying the Cardassian ship. It is already disappearing from the display in the image to the left.
For range purposes (assuming infinite speed weapons), we have a range on the order of ~190,000 kilometers. For weapon speed purposes, this would indicate a torpedo speed of 40-50,000km/sec.
Time: A few seconds later
The Phoenix has caught up to and destroyed the supply ship. The weapon is not specified, but seemed to be faster than the torpedoes.

last post


In The Phantom Menace, Amidala's royal yacht was fired on by a Trade Federation battleship as it ran the blockade.

The Trade Federation battleship is some 3170 meters in diameter according to non-canon sources. And, in the image above, we have a battleship 54 pixels wide out of a possible 800. Assuming Lucas didn't go changing up the shots too much, we can once again assume the same basic parameters for our two different calculations. So, here we go again:
1. Distance to Target
a. Method One

Per the methods and assumptions above, we have a vehicle 0.0675 x 30 degrees, thus:

.5 A / D = tan (.5 (theta))
.5 (3170m) / D = tan (.5 (2.025))
D = 1,585m / tan (1.0125)
D = 89,683.32m

This seems rather high compared to the ISD estimate from TESB above, implying that our assumption of a 30 degree field of view may be inaccurate. A 45-degree field of view would give us a distance of a hair under sixty kilometers, almost exactly the value of the quick-and-dirty estimation that first appeared on this page.
b. Method Two

If 800 pixels represents 22mm of film space, then the 54px battleship represents 1.485 millimeters. Calculating off of the two standards we've been using above, then, we find the following:

OD / 3170m = 35mm / 1.485mm
OD / 3170m = 23.569
OD = 3170m * 23.569
OD = 74,713.81m

OD / 3170m = 50mm / 1.485mm
OD / 3170m = 33.67
OD = 3170m * 33.67
OD = 106,734.01m

The above values correspond well to the 30 degree field of view calculation.
2. Conclusions

The calculations indicate that the Trade Federation battleship opened fire at about 90 kilometers from the royal vessel. I haven't personally scaled the royal ship, but if the EU figure of 76 meters for its length is accurate then its width must be in the 30 meter range, or very near that of the Falcon in the calculations from the original trilogy.

Of course, the shooting wasn't that great at that range. From the scene from which the image above is taken, some 19 shots were fired with only three that seemed to rattle the ship, and those appeared to be flak bursts. The first exterior view of the Nubian that we get some two or three seconds after the battleship opens fire features what appears to be five close flak burst shots, around seven near-misses (i.e. within ~20 meters), and three shots that are dozens of meters off the mark. The direct hit to the ship that occurs a moment later, right through the shields, and which hits the shield generator, can only have been the wildest stroke of luck.

I may be repeating what you said. But I have also observed while watching all of the SW movies (God help me for doing so), that the weaponry of SW ships are not as accurate as those on Star Trek. Star Trek has demonstrated its technological superiority contless times in weaponry and sensors.



Weapons

TMP ERA: R.I.M. Phaser Banks were a step up from the rotating based phaser emitters of TOS. R.I.M. Banks fire two phasers from one mount in a pulsing method allowing one bank to recharge for a fraction of a second while the other fires. This allows for greater power efficiency and greater output for the phasers.

TNG ERA: While the older, refitted ships still used the mounted R.I.M. emitter base. They were replaced with the standard Nadion discharging phasers, both banks able to fire at once. But newer TNG Ships have a Collimated phaser array. This is a more advanced form of phaser that have way to the Phaser strip. The Collimated Nadion particles discharged from the Phaser strip deliver greater damage, aswell as the ability to disable more effectively without collateral damage. Also with the phaser strips, the entire strip itself can fare multi-directional, giving greater weapons coverage.

We all know that Photon , Quantum, and Transphasic torpedoes can turn a Star Destroyer into Swiss Cheese.


In Star Wars, they mainly rely on "Lasers". Remember the TNG episode "Conundrum". The Lysians used Lasers as a primary weapon. Riker commented "Lasers?". When McDuff (who was an imposter), wanted to Picard to attack the Lysian Central Command, Picard stated "I do not fire on defenseless people". In Star Trek, Lasers are used only for tools, not weapons. Lasers do not produce as much power as Phasers, nor do they do the damage. Star Wars, in weapons in general, is screwed.

Battlestar Galactica is no match for Star Trek anyway. Seeing as they use missiles and Nuclear engines, their technological level is a dead giveaway.

Babylon 5 is the most logical match here. But B5 is at a grave disadvantage in some areas. Babylon 5's weaponry is sort of up to par with Trek, still Star Trek is more advanced.

The Earth Alliance's Warlock Class Destroyer's load out
12 Large Missile Silos ( for planetary attacks )
16 Small Missile Silos ( for capital ship assaults and planetary attacks)
2 Heavy Particle Beam Cannons
9 Heavy Pulse Cannons
3 Heavy Rail Guns
4 Medium Pulse Cannons
9 Light Pulse Cannons
16 Short Range PP Turrets.

This B5 Destroyer is heavily armed. But its size, roughly 1,992 meters in length, would make an easy target. Its Hull armor is 10-15 meters of armor is not good enough protection for a direct Photon Torpedo hit. Photon Torpedoes are known to go through Kilometers solid objects, and can be set to detonate at a certain distance or location. The Warlock's Defensive Grid Projectors are nearly equal to that of Post ENT pre-TOS Deflectors. A 24th century Star Trek vessel would make short work of their defensive systems.


Though the Particle beam weapons on the Warlock operate at an unknown watt level, an extremely high Particle watt level can strain 24th century shields. The Pulse cannons may do a good deal of damage on shields aswell, their accuracy would be an issue, seeing as B5's technology is a little consistent with ENT. Star Trek really doesn't put an emphasis on starship size. But I know that a Sovereign Class would fly circles around the Warlock because the Sovereign's engines are designed for high output and her weapons are rivaled only to the Galaxy Class, the Negh'var and the Romulan Warbird. But, as dead said, weapons range is a BIG factor. Star Trek definitely has the distance advantage.

Quote :

We all know that Photon , Quantum, and Transphasic torpedoes can turn a Star Destroyer into Swiss Cheese.

This smells more like an opinion instead of a fact, dear friend. While I agree that Transphasic torpedo might hurt ISD if it hits a critical point, the rest cannot penetrate the shields, and even if they could, they would impact thick layer of armor because ISD is, as the name implies, a destroyer, a pure WARSHIP.

Lionus wrote:

Quote :

We all know that Photon , Quantum, and Transphasic torpedoes can turn a Star Destroyer into Swiss Cheese.

This smells more like an opinion instead of a fact, dear friend. While I agree that Transphasic torpedo might hurt ISD if it hits a critical point, the rest cannot penetrate the shields, and even if they could, they would impact thick layer of armor because ISD is, as the name implies, a destroyer, a pure WARSHIP.

A 57 Megaton yield from a Photon Torpedo would splice through the puny SW shields aswell as cause considerable damage to the SD's hull. You gotta remember too, that the SD is a very large target aswell as armed with primitive weaponry. And you know how Starfleet captains are, most are unconventional in their tactics. Voyager herself was armed with Tri-Cobalt devices, though not my request, Starleet seen them to fir for the particular mission. Photon Torpedoes are designed to cause collateral damage, Tri-Cobalt devices and Transphasic torpedoes are designed for MAD = Mutually Assured Destruction. SW has the Proton Torpedo, which I don't thing has the targeting capability or the yield to do ST ships much damage or for ST ships to consider them a threat. The Class 6 Torpedo can pack a 200 isoton yield which would also pack a devastating blow to the clumsy SD. Also the Class 6 torpedo has a maximum effective range of 8 million Kilometers, well out of the SD's weapons range. The SD is at a lose lose situation.

yet, the amount of visible destruction ST weapons cause ( for example, all those photons and quantums hitting single spot on Borg cube on FC) is ridiculously small. And even onscreen there's inconsistencies about how effective the weapons would be.

Lionus wrote:

yet, the amount of visible destruction ST weapons cause ( for example, all those photons and quantums hitting single spot on Borg cube on FC) is ridiculously small. And even onscreen there's inconsistencies about how effective the weapons would be.

That is because the Borg can adapt aswell as regenerate. That is waaaaaaaaaaay beyond what the Empire is capable of doing, and it is beyond Starfleet's capabilities aswell.

We would have to take physics into effect, because we don't know what a antimatter explosion looks like, it might be small but have a huge damage radius via shockwave, and there is no fire in space, so the explosion is burning off of the oxygen released by the hull breach.

concussion missiles-
Each concussion missile featured an armor-piercing tip that penetrated a target's hull before igniting the missile's compact energy pack, causing more devastating results than single-shot turbolaser cannons. The impact would trigger the missile's warhead, which like proton torpedoes, was either nuclear or thermonuclear in nature. A concussion missile did not necessarily need to impact in order to detonate, however, some could be set to explode at a preset proximity to the target. In atmosphere, the missile created a deafening sonic boom and caused major damage to the surrounding area.

proton torpedoes-
The proton torpedo is a weapon usually held in reserve during starfighter combat. Limited space aboard the tiny fighter translates into limited weapon payloads, and the cash-strapped Alliance is careful not to squander these expensive warheads. The destructive power delivered by a pair of torpedoes is far greater than the combined blast of a starfighter's laser weapons, so even though they are used sparingly, they are still quite effective.

The heart of a proton torpedo is the proton-scattering warhead, often triggered by a nergon-14 explosive. The entire conical torpedo is sheathed in a field of energy that prevents accidental detonation caused by collision with debris or laser cannon near-misses.

Typically a starship-fired anti-vessel weapon, there are several shoulder-fired proton torpedo launchers used by special units in both the Imperial and Alliance military.


star wars canon includes the books, but not games.

Oh fine, be like that.. so much about federations tolerant attitude.

Wait A minute BSG has a chance I refer now to ST:FC Picard mows down Borg who have mini shields Could not adapt to the Bullets of Picard's Holographic Tommy gun also there sheilds where ineffective against Worf punching them in the face I'm not completely slashing the argument i mean i love trek and BSG Why the two would fight is beyond me but if they did i think that the defensive capability of the Battlestar's would be there greatest strength I refer to the BSG episode Daybreak where the galactica Collides with the Cylon Colony to which it is immediately fired upon by thousands of turrets with explosive rounds now lets remember that the galactica was going to become a museum ship and that newer ships would be able to take much more punishment I now refer too the battle of new caprica The Pegasus was the most powerful ship in the fleet not even all them cylon nukes could take it out only colliding with a basestar could finally destroy it a battlestar would be able to warp faster as well since the FTL drive literally Bends space causing a spacial rupture temporally so that the battlestar can cross through to the other side however any ship thats nearby even if its twice the size would and i quote "Rip the guts out" now in no way am i say i prefer BSG but i do wish people stop underestimating them they are not as weak as people make them out to be if needs be ill dig up info on the TOS:BSG but for now just read this

Source: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/FTL#Faster-Than-Light_travel

Lionus wrote:

Oh fine, be like that.. so much about federations tolerant attitude.

If you don't like the normal Federation. There is Always the Terran Empire. And you know their weaponry and shields is superior to that of the prime universe.

the holographic bullets were a energy weapon, they were holograms carried by a tractor beam

If the bullets where energy weapon's why didn't the Borg adapt to it i thought it was after three hits from an energy weapon they adapted Also Data said that the holodeck had basic replicators is it not possible that once the safety protocols are off the holodecks begin to replicate real bullets?

Nemphis wrote:

If the bullets where energy weapon's why didn't the Borg adapt to it i thought it was after three hits from an energy weapon they adapted Also Data said that the holodeck had basic replicators is it not possible that once the safety protocols are off the holodecks begin to replicate real bullets?

Because the .45 ACP Slug from a M1921 Thompson SMG is that damn good. lol.

Yup Borg couldn't adapt to Tommy gun bullet modulation because it's solid projectile not energy beam, BSG uses mostly gauss and kinetic guns which are big bullets accelerated to great speed. Yet we can see many times big chunks of hull hitting ship and being deflected by shields tho.

I have never seen a large chunk of metal bounce of a Trek ships shield's. and if that is the case why do they go around astaroids

photon torpedoes are a hunk of metal with a antimatter charge


The Borg, Kinetic Energy, and Holodecks

A common line of argument employed by anti-Trek debaters is that the Borg are highly vulnerable to kinetic energy attacks, such as fist, knives, bullets, arrows, and so on. The more rabid of anti-Trek debaters usually offer a quick follow-up: an assertion that Starfleet officers are stupid for not replicating a good Glock and cleaning house when the need arises, or that the Roman Army/Native Americans/(insert other pre-industrial culture here) could defeat the Borg.

While the claim that the Borg are susceptible to fists and knives is accurate, as seen in First Contact, there is no evidence in support of the conjecture that bullets, arrows, or spears would kill Borg drones, because no one has ever fired/used a projectile weapon against the Borg. To be fair, the idea that someone has is a common misconception, but it is only a misconception.

"But what about Picard going nuts in First Contact with the Tommy Gun?"

Picard Goes Nuts . . .

. . . While "Nicky the Nose" Remains Extremely Calm.

Though people often think Picard was firing real bullets against the Borg, he told Lily otherwise.

Lily: "I don't get it. I thought you said this was all just a bunch of holograms. If it's holograms, how . . . "
Picard: "I disengaged the safety protocols. Without them, even a holographic bullet can kill."
-First Contact

Holodeck technology uses two distinct methods to make a person feel like they are "really there" in the location the holodeck is representing. First, there are the holographic representations, which can be given the feeling of substance by use of forcefields. Second, the holodeck can actually replicate items . . . this is especially true if one wishes to take an object off the holodeck with them.

All of this is kept in good fun (or for good, non-lethal training) by the use of "holodeck safeties". The term basically refers to the fact that the computer is watching, and will prevent something in the holodeck (an action or object) from causing death or serious injury to the participant.


Picard's holographic bullets were nothing more than 'smoke and mirrors', backed up by a forcefield. It was not an attack with a projectile weapon firing bullets with kinetic energy . . . it was a crafty forcefield attack that the Borg had obviously never encountered before, and had therefore not adapted to. The Borg were aware that they were in a holographic environment . . . not only was one of the drones Picard shot an assimilated ensign, but one of the holodeck characters was disrupted by some sort of scanning beams.

Disrupted (and disconcerted) Holodeck Character

"But, if Worf's knife can cut a Borg open, shouldn't a bullet work, too?"

Post-Worf Borg

Now we enter the land of conjecture. The common anti-Trek conjecture is that, since the Borg can be struck with a fist (if you're lucky . . . Riker and Worf got schooled by drones in "Best of Both Worlds"), they can be shot with a bullet. However, this need not be so.

First, the Borg drones have shields. These shields allow a drone to easily repulse a phaser attack, provided they have adapted to the frequency and modulation of the beam. Take a phaser . . . you hit the right frequency band, you can get through . . . then the Borg adapt. You change frequencies to one you've used before, and they're still adapted to it. If you shift frequencies all over the spectrum, you might sneak things in . . . the Borg don't seem to maintain adaptation to all frequencies of all weapons all of the time . . . it would be inefficient. But, they can figure out the pattern of the shifting, and adapt to that. As Q said, they are relentless.

Borg Drone Shields Repelling Phaser Hits


These shields do not inhibit a Borg drone's interaction with its environment, but do allow for phaser nullification, even when the drone isn't obviously paying attention to whoever is firing. Do these shields stop projectiles? Well, we can't say for certain, but we can make some logical inferences based on the canon.

First, even though phasers have frequencies (at least some in the electromagnetic spectrum, as per Worf's comments in BoBW about the upper EM band), they are canonically identified as particle weapons on several occasions, such as First Contact, "Broken Bow"[ENT1], and "Endgame"[VOY7], where Tuvok identifies the particles as nadions (as opposed to Jem'Hadar polarons). The fact that Borg drone shields repulse phaser attack suggests that they at least can stop a certain class of particles. And, we have seen a shield that did prevent physical attack, if only briefly, when Worf was knocked back from Locutus in "Best of Both Worlds, Pt. II"[TNG4]. Another was encountered by Data in First Contact. However, to be fair, these were aboard the Borg ship or hive site, and may have been Borg ship-tech and not drone-tech.

Borg Shield Preventing Data's Escape

Second, Starfleet and Starfleet officers are certainly not unfamiliar with projectile weapons . . . they have appeared in numerous episodes throughout all of Trek. Sulu was thinking of and ended up having a revolver in "Shore Leave"[TOS1]. Kirk taught Tyree's people how to use flintlocks in "A Private Little War"[TOS2], and had the ship manufacture more. Spock had to convince Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty that the imaginary bullets of "Spectre of the Gun"[TOS3] could not kill them. Kirk had a variety of weapons, some of which were projectile weapons, in his collection, as seen in Star Trek II, III, and Generations. Most of Picard's excursions into the Dixon Hill story on the holodeck have involved projectile weapons in some way, from "The Big Goodbye"[TNG1] to "Manhunt"[TNG2] to First Contact, as have some Voyager holodeck programs, such as the French Maquis resistance program set in World War II ("The Killing Game"[VOY4]). When hand phasers wouldn't work in "Starship Mine"[TNG6], Picard grabbed Worf's crossbow. Sisko knew the basics of shotgun operation in "Past Tense"[DS9-3], and DS9's Ensign Bertrand was a gun collector with an interest in projectile arms ("Field of Fire"[DS9-7]). Projectile weapons were also encountered in "Time and Again"[VOY1].

Starfleet TR-116 Projectile Weapon
Most strikingly, Starfleet actually designed a projectile weapon "some years" ago for use in environments where phasers might not operate due to electromagnetic interference or other peculiar factors. It fired a tritanium slug, propelled by a simple chemical reaction. Though the "regenerative phaser" advancement made this weapon obsolete before it was even fielded, the replicator pattern is on file and available to officers. At least three were made on Deep Space Nine in the episode "Field of Fire"[DS9-7], where the basic weapon had been enhanced with a new targeting system and a micro-transporter to allow for displaced firing, even into the classic "locked room".

Third, Starfleet has had the opportunity to study Borg technology at length. Besides the debris of the Borg cube from "Best of Both Worlds, Pt. II"[TNG4], and the technology Crusher removed from Captain Picard, there was the chance to study operational drone technology in "I, Borg"[TNG5]. In that episode, Geordi and the crew had opportunity to scan, poke, and prod a drone that had been separated from the collective. We know from the episode that Borg information processing routines and Borg sensor information was studied, but it stands to reason that more than just those specific technological applications were scanned. The numerous Borg corpses and technology of First Contact could also be studied when the Enterprise-E returned to the 24th Century. And, though this example is Voyager-specific, they even got to study a more advanced drone in "Drone"[VOY5]. They also brought a cargo bay full of Borg debris aboard from the destruction of a Borg scout ship in "Dark Frontier"[VOY5], and we saw a few moments of the study of that material. Finally, Seven of Nine's parents spent a long time studying the Borg at close range, even bringing drones aboard their small ship for extended study ("Dark Frontier"[VOY5]).

Over and above all of this, of course, there is the fact that former drones are a part of Starfleet. Not only was Picard a drone named Locutus for awhile, but Voyager also carries the former drone Seven of Nine, who has told us volumes about the Borg and their technology. Further, there is the fact that Janeway, Tuvok, and Torres were assimilated in "Unimatrix Zero"[VOY7] (though they were able to maintain individuality as a result of technobabble), and later recovered, and Chakotay was assimilated briefly with Borg technology in "Unity"[VOY3]. As observed in First Contact and the Voyager Borg episodes, this has provided the officers with detailed information on the Borg Collective.

The anti-Trek contingent claim, of course, that Starfleet officers are all stupid, and that no one ever thought of trying to shoot the Borg with bullets. I suppose it is possible that no one ever tried to bring a gun to a disruptor fight (Borg drones, after all, are frequently armed with disruptor attachments, as observed in "Descent, Pt. I"[TNG6], "Drone"[VOY5], and "Scorpion, Pt. I"[VOY3]).

But, let's look at the evidence:

1. We have never seen projectile weapons used against the Borg.

2. Starfleet has access to modern-design projectile weapons, and can evidently recreate old ones.
(reference: "Field of Fire"[DS9-7], "A Private Little War"[TOS2], "The Big Goodbye"[TNG1], ST:FC, etc.)

3. Starfleet has studied operational drones and their technology, has extracted technology from former drones, and has studied non-operational Borg equipment.
(reference: "Best of Both Worlds"[TNG4], "I, Borg"[TNG5], First Contact, "Scorpion"[VOY3], "Drone"[VOY5], "Unimatrix Zero"[VOY7], "Dark Frontier"[VOY5], etc.)

4. Several Starfleet officers and personnel have spent time as Borg drones, giving them detailed information on Borg technology.
(reference: "Best of Both Worlds"[TNG4], First Contact, Seven of Nine, etc.)

5. Phasers are particle weapons
(reference: Picard in First Contact, Malcolm Reed in "Broken Bow"[ENT1], Tuvok in "Endgame"[VOY7], et cetera)

6. Borg drone shields stop phasers.
(reference: Every Borg episode since "Q Who"[TNG2])

7. When Starfleet needed a weapon that would work in conditions where phasers wouldn't, they looked to a projectile weapon. Individual officers also think the same way.
(reference: "Field of Fire"[DS9-7] TR-116 backstory, and "Starship Mine"[TNG6])

8. Borg drone shields do not stop physical attacks, such as hands or knives.
(reference: Every Borg episode since "Q Who"[TNG2])

9. The Borg drones are capable of interacting with their environment.
(reference: Every Borg episode since "Q Who"[TNG2])

So, which is the better synthesis of this data? That the Borg lack all forms of KE shielding, or that they are selective about it?
Technological Bullet-Proof Vest

If you do not assume that all Starfleet personnel are complete idiots, and that there is therefore some reason to explain why they have not attempted to use projectile weapons against the Borg, the most likely hypothesis is that projectile weapons would be ineffective against Borg drones.

If so, then the defense mechanism employed by the Borg is likely shield-based. However, it must be selective in that case, since the Borg interact with their environment. Of course, it might not be selective enough, given that hands, knives, and phaser stocks have been used to injure and kill Borg.

On the other hand, given the schooling delivered to Riker and Worf in "Best of Both Worlds" when Picard was kidnapped from the bridge, it is likely the Borg consider any losses due to hand-to-hand minimal and acceptable. This rationale has, as its basis, the fact that the Borg do not care about individual lives, and will send drones into combat knowing that the first few will die before the Borg can adapt. It should be noted, however, that the Borg will start being bothered by unacceptable losses due to physical attack. This was seen in "Scorpion"[VOY], when Tuvok discovered evidence that the Borg had tried to use disruptors against a member of Species 8472. The 8472 had boarded a piece of a cube and starting ripping the surviving drones into giblets with its massive claws.

In theory, then, this selective KE shield operates somewhat less effectively than the holodeck's safety protocols . . . it will stop some obviously-damaging KE attacks such as bullets, but does not affect a drone's ability to interact with its environment. It will also likely be overwhelmed by large, fast objects, such as a flying bulkhead or (for non-Trek examples) speeding planes, trains, and automobiles.

Dont count the battlestar Out just yet

Galactic class Armaments

As many as 514 dual point-defense Kinetic Energy Weapons, 24 primary dual Kinetic Energy Weapons, at least 12 missile tubes capable of firing conventional and nuclear missiles, Vipers, Raptors

Pegasus Class Armament

34 Primary Kinetic Energy Weapons (30 twin turrets, 4 fixed twin mounts) and point-defense Kinetic Energy Weapons, conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors

Now in a few episodes of ST Small Shuttle craft have been able to fly through a ships shield and beam aboard

Scenario:
A Pegasus class Battlestar Comes Under fire from a Federation Akira Class The Battlestar Begins firing all its Kinetic Weapon in a defensive manner whilst 100's of vipers are launched The defensive barrage destroys Photon's and quantum's alike All vipers have now been launched

Viper armaments:
2 Kinetic Energy Weapon, missiles

The vipers scatter creating a harder target to hit each viper flys inside the sheild of the akira and aim to take out Weapon systems and Engines so the ship can be boarded After the success of knocking bot weapons and engines several raptor approach Carrying Highly trained marines Since starfleet dont seem to have the greatest train footsoliders the battle ends swiftly with the Colonies getting away with an akira class and some minor burns from phaser fire

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I have never seen a large chunk of metal bounce of a Trek ships shield's. and if that is the case why do they go around astaroids

oh pardon ? how about piece of saucer hull pannel from just exploded Yamato hit Enterprise ? how about piece of Norexan wing hitting Enterprise E into port side of the saucer, there was something else like that in DS9 but there was something odd with shields ...

about those shuttles why they always need to drop shields in order to land/depart ? and those shuttles could pass through shields due to messing with warp field (Enterprise D shields penetrated in a single spot between nacelles in one episode 'Ensign Ro')

The in nemesis how was Picard able to use the Ent-e To ram into the Scimitar Both ships had shields yet they both passed through each others Sheild and collided resulting in what happened in the end also as we see in BSG Resurrection some Vipers have FTL Who's to say the don't jump in and jump out Doing a ton of Damage on exit. of course this only speculation that an FTL Drive can go through a shield but i dont see why it couldnt if you can jump into a star using FTL Drives

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Underpinning Theories



FTL: "Folding Space"

The FTL drive technology used within the Re-imagined Series might be based on the use of Superstring Theory and M-Theory that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what M-Theory does is provide a way to change the topology of space-time dynamically.

The use of such wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "wormhole", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:

* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").

Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.
Relativistic Acceleration

A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in Battlestar Galactica do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the impression of faster-than-light travel.

However, the FTL jumps in the series do allow information to be sent faster than light can send it, which results in a violation of causality within the special theory of relativity. (ie. If event A comes before B from one viewpoint, there will be other equally valid viewpoints where event B takes place before A.) Causality is not violated by FTL in a universe that has a special fixed reference frame, however this contradicts current understanding.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes. It also means that the only direct form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their sublight drive systems.
Feasibility

While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist Kip Thorne has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by Carl Sagan in his novel "Contact" which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

Source: Battlestar wiki